Thread: Interesting Discovery for Gulf Specks

boy, I wish I could be that flawed and catch specks like VG does. He must be flawed in the right way. Speck catching machine :headbang:

[quote author=DRH link=topic=397.msg3508#msg3508 date=1324664780]

I will agree that large trout a wary fish, but the words intelligence and figured out don't belong when referring to cold blooded animals. If you were to make the same statement about a warm blooded animal other than a human, then I could see that to an extent. However, I don't think that even the most intelligent mammals or birds could hold a candle to humans in regard to our ability to reason and figure things out.[/quote]

Thank you for the great reply Dr. H. Allow me to apologize in advance to others for the scientific jargon I am about to use to answer your questions.

I am sure you are as surprised as I was with the findings. I chose to conduct this study based on the average sizes of the Spotted Seatrout I have captured lately. I typically do not harvest this species during spring or summer because they are busy spawning and I want no part in disrupting such necessary behavior. Since this is my first year targeting them specifically from the Perdido Pass in Orange Beach, AL, the observations were quite marginal based on my past experiences obtaining them elsewhere—making differences more noticeable on my behalf personally. Not to mention, the five largest Spotted Seatrout I have ever personally landed came exclusively out of Alabama Point this year—adding to my curiosities.

I just want to point out that my indication to the intelligence of the fish was not a scientific measurement of their mental capacities; but rather, a reference to the reverence that local fisherman such as us have for the species in general--I merely attempted to applaud the species with a credible observation of behavior not seen in most other species. While we know through ichthyological research that these cold-blooded creatures cannot process critical thinking skills as we do, they are instinctively evolving as years pass--as these otoliths are precise evidence. All species, regardless of nature or understanding, have three primary goals in mind: eat, survive, and reproduce. Spotted seatrout simply have evolved in such a way as to help their species do so more effectively—whether they “know” they have or not. I know their (the fish’s) mental reasonings are not in line with my rhetorical explanations as factual conclusiveness. The points I brought up are merely reflective theoretical assumptions with plausible conclusions to explain the "why?" of the fish’s' behaviorisms as we see it in layman's eyes.

Also, after further research, I discovered I am not the only marine biology nerd to discover this unique occurrence in "Pan-handle" Spotted Seatrout. Stephen Bortone made this discovery about 8 years ago and wrote a 300+ page biological research book in regards to it--with Spotted Seatrout as the exclusive topic. Since this species of fish typically thrives in an average of a 30 mile radius from the time of their birth, and are not migratory by any means, studies must be conducted regionally rather than by the fish species. Basically, that means your findings for Spotted Seatrout in Louisiana will not coincide with your findings in Tampa Florida, for example.

The abnormality I discovered was the opaque shades that develop during colder months are incredibly larger in comparison to the translucent shades which begin in the spring/summer months—typically these shades are reversed. This pattern is only seen along the panhandle Spotted Seatrout which live in areas such as Perdido Bay, St. Andrews Bay, Choctawhatchee Bay, etc. Bortone made this observation in his book in regards to the estuary-specific age and growth patterns along the panhandle bays.


[quote author=DRH link=topic=397.msg3508#msg3508 date=1324664780]
First allow me to say that I believe that both pairs of "ear stones" were from female fish. I'm not buying into the notion that there are any 5#, 6 year old trout in existence.
Male trout grow slower and don't live as long as females. Males don't reach 14 inches long until 3 or 4 years old. Few males live over 5, so virtually all spotted seatrout 5 pounds and larger are females. This is not to say that don't exist, I just find it difficult to believe after looking at information concerning growth rates of trout as related to sex and age. Here is an example I found that showed the most extreme case of male growth from this. [/quote]

Actually, males have been recorded reaching ages of 8-9 years, and in some areas have been recorded to live longer than the females on average—such as St. Andrews Bay (where females are smaller than normal as well). Of course, it is rare for either male or female to live beyond 5 years, and in almost all cases the females live longer, are larger and can exceed 10 years of age on occasion. I can guarantee you that there are many males in existence between 5-7 years—although, the majority of them do not survive beyond 3-4 years due to conditional factors. Our signed copy of Dr. Bob Shipp’s guide to fishes of the Gulf of Mexico also explains specifically that males can last more than 5-6 years.

The size and growth patterns are based upon environmental and ecological conditioning. In many cases, the males grow more rapidly during the first year, but progressively slow down during the 2nd and 3rd year, where the female surpasses the male. There are some areas where both males and females can attain sexual maturity after the 1st year as well and exceed 12”, but in others they do not reach prime until 3 or 4 years, and may not exceed 12” until the 3rd season. We cannot identify with a generalized chart and expect that to be the supreme calculator for a regionally charted species. The sample provided in the website you reviewed is decent for generalizations or quick reference, but is certainly non-conclusive. With the world record Spotted Seatrout sitting in at 17lbs 7oz, and specimens larger than 22lbs kept in captivity, I would assume size and age variations for this wonderful fish to be open to interpretation.

In both cases of the otoliths I retrieved, the cored zone was opaque—meaning the fry hatched in the fall and took their first growth and feedings throughout the winter months. I have a theory that because these fall-hatched siblings (I assume) were born learning to eat in colder weather, they have simply made instinctive adaptations which hard-wired them to “think” that prime feeding time is during the winter months—rather than warmer summer months. Similar to how we perceive 12pm noonday as lunch time—even though in some cultures it has always been either 10am or 2pm. We perceive in our local and modern culture, however, that 12pm means lunch, and therefore we are hard-wired to feel hungry once that hour approaches.

One interesting thing I discovered were the extraordinarily large strips of belly fat loaded on these specks. When I peeled these incredibly delicious offerings off of each grocery item, they were the length of a full slice of bacon, and two to three times as thick as a hog jowl from Lamberts. You haven’t properly tasted the most elegant flavor of a Spotted Seatrout until you have bitten into the tender, juicy belly fat of the fish. Normally, I have not seen this type of excess until March/April, and most catches in the past have been relatively thin in comparison during November/December months. Such fat accumulation is possible, I believe, due to the amount of baitfish schools that gather in the confines of the dredged pass. These Specks are hanging out downstream of the jetties, bridge pylons and other structures just beyond the breaking currents during falling tides, and feasting on the baitfish caught up and being swept into the currents in helpless fashion.

Baitfish congregate in these types of areas for shelter, and predators follow suit right behind them. Out of the pass, we have caught Spanish and King Mackerel, Redfish, Ladyfish, Guagaunche Barracuda, Southern Sennet, Bluefish, Sharks (mostly Bulls), Stingrays (mostly Southern), Spotted Seatrout, Sand and Silver Seatrout, Flounder, Cutlassfish, Catfish (mostly giant Gafftops) and various Snapper with random other species. Additionally, Tursiops truncatus are extremely popular, and will dance around for you all day and night. We even watched in awe this summer as an extremely large Oarfish leaped completely out of the water about 50 yards from the wall. The predators aren’t foolish—they are there to feast and swim around with their mouths open. Fish just simply get larger than normal in the pass because the conditions are right, and the food is there.


[quote author=DRH link=topic=397.msg3508#msg3508 date=1324664780]
You would have to display some serious evidence and/or explain to me your qualifications and experience to convince me that these aren't both females.

I think it all comes down to spawning as you stated, but not to the extent of Momma Sow trout telling herself "I've got to hide from my predators and I will only eat enough to survive since that pogey might have a hook in its pocket, cuz I've got millions of kids to spawn". Fish eat more in the summer since they are cold blooded creatures. As water temperatures increase, so does their metabolism. As metabolism increases, so does their intake of groceries. Spawning takes an enormous amount of energy, just as it does for almost all, if not all, forms of reproduction in advanced living creatures. It appears to indicate from your observations and the growth chart above, that once a fish reaches its prime reproductive age the majority of its intake is shifted from growth to reproducing and most of its addition grow, though limited, occurs in the winter despite decrease consumption of food.

The fact that larger trout tend to be easier to catch in the winter is more a function of where the fish are, which too is temperature related. Trout tend to congregate in warmer and shallower waters in cold weather, which are the waters which are more accessible to anglers. It shouldn't take much of an explanation to convince anyone that more fish in a smaller area that is easier to reach equals more fish caught than fewer fish in a much larger area that is difficult or impossible to reach.
[/quote]

Personally, I think there is more involved than simply “spawning,” but again, that is my private interpretation based on evidence I have incurred. I believe that the time of year the fry begin feeding is part of the formula, along with where the available food actually is and the competition involved with catching it. I will not bore everyone with my histological and morphological qualifications and experiences, but I certainly know how to identify the gonads of a fish and approximate maturation levels using a GSI calculation. A microscopic view of generally 200x-400x is all that is necessary, but routinely there are results which simply don’t agree and DNA testing is required for greater certainty. I cannot say with 100% certainty it was a 6 year old male since results can and do vary (sometimes even stumping my former professors), but I am “mostly” convinced it is based on visual observations that support it being so—therefore we can agree that a “SWAG” is appropriate for all intensive purposes for observing the basic fundamentals regarding the topic in discussion.

I will be going Speck fishing the final week of the year, and will hopefully obtain more specimens in which to conduct evaluations on. I plan to record each finding in my log book, and hopefully I can reach an affirmed conclusion on the behaviorisms of our local Spotted Seatrout so we can better understand their behaviors and mannerisms. I personally find this topic very interesting, and I appreciate the additional information you have diligently provided for comparison. I may evaluate this species over the course of the next 3-5 years before putting any materials together for publication--but time will certainly tell.

???

so that's what you've been up to the last three days (typing) :

Merry Christmas everybody! :fishing:

Well... this shows that sport fishermen are a lot smarter than those dumb, backwoods commercial fishermen. I dont see any of them debating this kind of stuff.

[quote author=Pier#r link=topic=397.msg3574#msg3574 date=1324791840]
???

so that's what you've been up to the last three days (typing) :

Merry Christmas everybody! :fishing:
[/quote]

LOL!

Christmas preparation, you know how that last minute shopping is.

Oh, it's after midnight, so MERRY CHRISTMAS all!

[size=12pt]Thanks for sharing all the info VG, but I have a very short attention span and sometimes nod-off in the middle of some of your dissertations. How ‘bout a Readers Digest Version in the future! oke1:

MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL Y’ALL[/size] :yippee:

^^^ In the online forum world, we call that Too Long, Didnt Read, or tl;dr for shorthand. It's like giving us an ADHD version at the beginning of long posts.

Where are the Cliff's Notes?


Seriously, that is one helluva good read, but the $150 price tag puts it out of my reach (Santa's too :-(

Still excerpts from the first three chapters of it can be 'Googled' @
http://books.google.com/books?id=h33...ut&f=false

Happy New Year everybody!

[quote author=FinChaser link=topic=397.msg3590#msg3590 date=1324833768]
[size=12pt]Thanks for sharing all the info VG, but I have a very short attention span and sometimes nod-off in the middle of some of your dissertations. How ‘bout a Readers Digest Version in the future! oke1:

MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL Y’ALL[/size] :yippee:
[/quote]

Hah! Sorry, Fin!

Please refer to the following disclaimer on the warning label:
[quote author=Viking Guy link=topic=397.msg3566#msg3566 date=1324783059]
Allow me to apologize in advance to others for the scientific jargon I am about to use to answer your (Dr. H's) questions.
[/quote]

Nonetheless, I shall provide the Reader's Digest version for us.