Thread: Commercial vs. Recreational

I bring this up for discussion, as its own topic, because there seems to be a disparity in the two viewpoints. Thanks, Pierless, for providing the "Share the Gulf" link Share the Gulf » About The name itself is a face-slap to recreational fishermen because the implication is that recreational fishermen are hogging the resources. I suggest that the commercial fishermen coalition is projecting its own self-centered nature.

There's this lie on the "About" page:

"They are trying to reduce the portion of fish destined for restaurants and grocery stores and give it all exclusively to the recreational fishery."

"Give it all"? Well this simply isn't true. In the proposal for upcoming red snapper harvests, the choice that tilts most in the favor of recreational fishermen is a 59-41 division, a ten percent increase over the present 49-51 split. At the crux of the viewpoint difference seems to be this contention by the commercial gulf seafood advocacy group - "People shouldn't HAVE to fish, themselves, to get fresh, affordable seafood". I agree that the commercial fishery should exist, but not at the expense of those who are willing and able to catch their own! Why should the recreational fisherman (not an exact representation of who we are!) give up/give in to the commercial industry because we have invested our time and money into learning how to harvest the resource ourselves? It is not the place for recreational/self-reliant fishermen to provide price supports for those who can't or won't catch their own!

I catch my own bait. I purchase equipment, a saltwater license and a pier license. I have a boat. I purchase a license for the boat and the boating equipment necessary for success and safety. I've invested the time - half of a lifetime - perfecting (if I do say so myself) my fishing methods so that I'm successful. When I go fishing, it's only reasonable for me to expect stability in the availability of gamefish and to not have entire populations/schools wiped out by the commercial fishermen who have the ability to significantly deplete schools of pompano and mackerel and decimate populations snapper, grouper and cobia. How telling it was to see the commercial fishermen whining that they were shut out of access to speckled trout. Imagine what they would have done to THAT fishery! And the world didn't end when redfish were taken off the restaurant menus.

What I'm saying is -- Why shouldn't we, the recreational/self-sufficient fishermen, enjoy the benefits of our expertise? At least the fish caught by the recreational/self-sufficient fisherman will be consumed locally. There's a balance to be struck and that balance is that if a person doesn't want to (or can't) catch his own, then he has to pay a little more for somebody else to do it for him. That's not unreasonable and the burgeoning market will underpin those price supports for someone wanting fresh gulf seafood that he didn't "have to catch himself".

Agree, the commercial fishing lobby is selling a lie!

In all my life (almost 60 years), I have NEVER seen mackerel for sale at any Alabama "seafood" restaurant.

"Locally BOUGHT" and "locally CAUGHT" are almost always two very different things ;-)

I've been a lurker on this site for some time, and am a regular surf and sometimes pier fisherman the 4 or 5 times a year I can get down to the coast. But it seems to me that when you consider the total expenditure for gear\tackle\license\baits\boats\charters, fuel etc. etc. etc., expended by each recreational fisherman in comparison to total weight of the affected species harvested by that fisherman, and contrast that with the expenditure per pound harvested by commercial operations, a strong argument could be made that the total economic impact of recreational fishing for these species at least holds its own against commercial, and so should not be diminished in favor of increasing commercial quotas. (Lord knows my wife regularly accuses me of bringing home $100\lb fish, and sometimes she's not far wrong!) I haven't researched it, but does anyone know if any of the groups lobbying in Washington in support of recreational fishermen earlier this year are active on these proposed rules?

I just finished reading the ShareTheGulf website and nowhere did I see any recreational fisherman commenting. Everything written there is from Chef's and Commercial Boat captains. It seems to me that those who operate Charter and Head Boats would be commenting as well if what is being proposed was truely fair to both recreational and commercial fisherman. I would venture to say that recreational fisherman both inshore and offshore contribute a bunch more money to local communities than the commercial guys do. If you keep restricting what the recreational guys can catch you will see a reduction in the number of people who travel to the coast to fish diminish greatly. I'm only one person, but when my wife and I come to the Gulf Coast for a week I spend probably $2500 to $3000 depending on what we do when we get there. If you multiply that by however many people come to the Gulf Coast every year specificly to fish you are talking about a truck load of money that will be lost to the local ecomomy. Here is a case in point, for many years 50 of us from here in Knoxville would charter a bus and travel to Panama City for a 3 day/overnight trip on a head boat out of Captain Andersons Marina. We went specificly to catch Red Snapper and Grouper and everyone always brought home a cooler full of fish. Our cost for the trip was $500.00 per man which covered the bus, the boat which we would sleep on and one night in a motel after our last night on the boat. When we got to Panama City we would stop at half Hitch tackle and buy cigar minnows, line, rods, reels hooks etc. etc. so all told 50 guys would spend and average of $700 for 3 days of fishing. Lots of fun and lots of fish to bring home for our families to enjoy. Well several years ago the snapper and grouper regs changed to I think 2 snapper and 1 grouper per day and the days you could fished were also limited. Based on that we dicided it was not worth $700 to catch a cooler full of beeliners so we quit making the trip which resulted in Panama City losing $35,000 of our money. I have been fishing all of my life and God only knows how much money I have spent pursuing that sport, so when the day comes that I can't catch decent game fish for my enjoyment and table I will quit fishing and go play checkers as will many other people who enjoy fishing.

BigDawg, I'm sure that the strictly pro-commercial fishing advocacy group is not going to allow alternative opinions on their site. They represent the interests of strictly commercial harvest. I could be wrong here, but I would think that chartered party boats for recreational fishermen would have to conform to recreational limits. The charter/head boat captains' interests would, then, fall on the recreational side, as opposed to commercial side. It would be a HUGE boost to that part of the recreational market, were the snapper allocations to change to 59 percent (recreational) vs 41 percent (commercial). Tha's why everyone should go to the NOAA comments page and express their preferences for the ten percent allocation change. In reality, they will probably split the difference and make it 54/46, but it's still a good idea for recreational fishermen to weigh in on the red snapper proposal. The spanish mackerel increase is already a done-deal.

But you're right about the impact that recreational fishing has on the economy. The commercial fishermen take it and go. It's in THEIR interest to take the resource WITHOUT spending money! The recreational fisherman is there to enjoy the experience!

And here's another striking difference. There are several of us here who share our techniques/best practices for success. Who has seen the commercial guys helping each other similarly? Not me! They seem to be in it for themselves and their own selfish interests, so the "Share the Gulf" nonsense means "Let us have it for ourselves!"

Originally Posted by eym_sirius

I would think that chartered party boats for recreational fishermen would have to conform to recreational limits.

That was true until recently. Charter boats are pushing for a sector separation plan that gives them access to the fishery while private recs are cut off. Some head boats had a quota last year they could catch when the season was closed to others. This program will probably expand this year. Unfortunately charters (most but not all) are now also in the gang beating up on private recreational fishing.

How about someone putting a link on the Forum for the NOAA comments page so that we as recreational fisherman can comment on what is being proposed by them. Let's face it, we make no money from our fishing, we merely just fish for the fun of it and spend our hard earned dollars to enjoy the sport. Since we have no organization to speak for us, we need to speak for ourself and make a case for how we make a major contribution to the local economies.

Here you go, Big Dawg!

Scoping Documents & Proposed Amendments : Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council

I agree with you about comments. I think that the best strategy is to flood them with comments addressing the massive economic impact of recreational fishermen on the economy, while re-enforcing the idea that the goal of commercial fishermen is to spend as little money as possible harvesting the resource.

Likely, if nobody comments, the Fishery Management Council will conclude that nobody on the recreational side will care or speak out against an adverse decision. I suggest asking for more than you think they're going to allow, so that when they do settle on a middle-ground decision, it's still an acceptable one. (Like asking for 59-41, but settling for a 54-46 reallocation of the harvest, in favor of the recreational fishermen).

I usually average a thousand or more per week total expenses for my Alabama coast trips and make several trips per year. I wonder if Gulf Shores will miss mt money if I just switct all the way to fresh water loal fishimg.

Today I spent sometime reading the reports as to why changes are being proposed to the current Red Snapper regulations. I read all their charts and graphs which show how many pounds of Red Snapper recreational fisherman have caught over the last decade or so. What kept jumping out at me was they show no verifiable method of calculating those numbers. Knowing the commercial guys catch is easy as they can track how many pounds were sold to buyers. Since there are no check stations for recreational guys to take their snapper to for counting and weighing, the numbers used in their charts to justify making changes to the season and limits is nothing but smoke and mirrors. In other words they are pulling those numbers out of their ass and publishing them as facts. What a sham this is.