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Got the Tikka T3 in 300 Win Mag and wanted to hear some opinions/experiences with shooting a 150gr vs 180gr. I've read a bunch of mixed opinions of both. Not too concerned about the recoil difference, that's kind of inevitable with a +/- 7lb setup. Mainly curious about the damage on impact with each round. I bought the Rem 180gr Core Loc to start with. Any personal experiences? Thanks
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Obviously target distance plays a factor too so if you've seen a notable difference at specific ranges I'd like to hear them. Also, what brand of round do you shoot and why?
bullet construction is more important than weight. it also depends a lot on what the gun likes.
+1 on what the rifle wants to shoot. That said, I've always leaned toward mass over velocity with larger calibers.
P&G,
Either way you got you a whole lot of gun!
Whatcha goin after? If it's bigger than deer you will want the 180's. If it's deer you still may want the 180's, they will ruin a bit less meat.
As far as recoil, what most folks don't understand is that a 12 ga shooting 3" magnum shells delivers more ft pds of energy to your shoulder than all but the largest bore rifles. Recoil - up to a point - is mental. We all grew up being told by the old men that a 12 ga was a man's shotgun, so we "manned-up" as boys and got used to it. But everyone talks about the scary bad recoil of big bores. Just my thoughts on the subject.
From Chuck Hawk's site:
12 gauge, 3" (1 5/8 oz shot at 1280 fps) 7.5 lbs = 52.0 ft lbs recoil energy
.300 Win. Mag. (180 gr at 2960 fps) 8.5 lbs rifle weight = 25.9 ft lbs recoil energy
.416 Rem. Mag. (400 gr at 2400 fps) 10.0 lbs rifle weight = 52.9 ft lbs recoil energy
And the famed .458 Win Mag
458 Win. Mag. (500 gr at 2100 fps) 9.0 lbs rifle weight = 62.3 ft lbs recoil energy
For more information on this (to me) fascinating subject, here are links to a couple of tables on Chuck Hawk's site.
SHOTGUN RECOIL TABLE
Rifle Recoil Table
Hat is going to be the biggest determining factor or accuracy is the twist rate of the barrel. A 1 in 10 twist will like the 150s a bit better and a 1 in 13 will tend to like the 180s better. Another thing that plays into accuracy is the velocity of the rounds. For the deer in Alabama 150 grains is all you really need. Now as far as drop rates go, anything out to a comfortable 300 yards with that gun isn't going to be noticeable. You will start seeing significant deviations at the 500-650 yard mark. At those distances you need to be proficient with doping your scope for windage an elevation to obtain a accurate point of impact
Thanks for the input, I'll experiment with some rounds and see the difference if any.
Flea, it is a lot of gun. Defiantly more than I need in Al or La but I'm hoping to eventually get a Elk tag in WA state.
I'd estimate that 90% of hunters have no business taking shots at 300 yds. The margin of error on a typical mature - 200 lb white tail buck - is huge at that distance. Beyond 300 yds, I'd make it about 98% and 400 yards or more, probably less than 1% should even think about it less than attempt it.
The primary factor in failures at distance is that most folks simply don't put in time at the range shooting at those distances. My longest is 358 yds on a fast walking buck on a pipeline. About 16" drop and to be honest, I was surprised to find him piled up about 50 yds away. However, he walked out at a spot that was a known distance and in fact I'd shot targets at that very spot. I used to spend LOTS of time sending lead down pipelines at distance and honestly estimate I'm a better shot than 98% of the people I've hunted with (and over 40 years that's a whole bunch of them) and I probably wouldn't take a 400 yd shot on a deer - elk is a different story.
As far as 500 - 600 yds - IMHO a hunter that doesn't make his living shooting at those distances has ZERO business taking that shot. A) Chances are overwhelmingly huge that you're going to miss. B) If you do manage to get lead into the animal, chances are huge that it won't be a killing shot. Hitting a piece of paper is one thing. Hitting an animal on the hoof, probably moving around or walking, when your heart is banging around and your breath is short is a whole different story.
NOW - I'm sure that plenty on here that have a rifle will squeal that they are THAT guy and can make that shot every day. My answer - show me your money.
PNG - here are the numbers on various .300 WM cartridges
Long RangeÓ Trajectory * Cartridge 100
yds.150
yds.200
yds.250
yds.300
yds.400
yds.500
yds.150 PSPCL 1.3 1.2 zero -2.4 -6.3 -18.9 -39.5 180 PSPCL 2.7 3.1 2.2 zero -3.7 -15.9 -35.5 180 NP 1.6 1.4 zero -2.8 -7.2 -21.0 -42.8 180 NBT 1.5 1.4 zero -2.6 -6.7 -19.3 -38.7 190 PSPBT 1.7 1.5 zero -2.9 -7.2 -20.8 -42.0 200 SAFPSP 1.8 1.6 zero -3.2 -8.0 -23.4 -47.8
Dive deep, I have a rifle at my house that will out shoot anybody you put behind it. Te only deviation you get with it outside of atmospheric conditions is the human error.
The weapon is probably 1% of the equation. All you have to do is have the right weapon for the situation. Where I make my point is on the general crappy quality of the abilities of the shooter. As with anything, there may be the rare "natural." But for the rest of us mere mortals, it is all about time spent sending lead down range. My rule of thumb has ALWAYS been that a hunter should NEVER take a shot at a distance he has not put a significant amount of time shooting at. I'd say the overwhelming amount of folks in the woods go to the range once a year. They shoot half a box getting sighted in at 100 yards from a sandbag rest on a table and then wonder why they missed that "buck of a lifetime" at 250 yds in the rain with the wind blowing 20 mph from a climber with no rest. Call me crazy but I used to go after season was over and shoot from my climber - especially to my offside. I'd say that over 40 years of deer hunting, I can count on one hand the number of deer I've just flat missed. But then, I'm also prone to pass on marginal shots - another thing a lot of folks don't do.
Kinda like this - give Mickelson a set of off the rack clubs and he's still gonna shoot in the '70s. Give me a set of $3,000 custom fit clubs and I'm still gonna shoot 95-100.
Put a few rounds down range this weekend. Didn't take but a few rounds to dial it with it being bore sighted. 3 of us shot it at all shots were within a 1 1/2" group. At 100yds it's shooting about 1"-1 1/2" high and dead on at 200yds. The rifle shot about as accurate as you could ask for. Has a pretty good recoil but easily toloreable. Probably won't put any 150gr through it this year unless something dictates otherwise.
PNG....as a reloader I realize I have options....if you do decide to go with 150 grain I would sure get something with bonded bullets. That extra velocity can cause bullet blow ups at close range. The 180 grain sierra is one of the most accurate bullets around. I think federal offers a factory load with them. If I were going to try a lighter load it would be the 165 grains. Lots of choices in that weight.
DD...hunting the bean fields of East Arkansas regularly presents us with 300 and 400 yard shots. With an accurate gun shooting an appropriate bullet with a good rangefinder, it really isn't that tough. But we shoot at that range so we know what the drop is and what a crosswind does. Most of all we shoot with a good rest. Practice does help extend ones ethical hunting range.
Sorry, I wrote before I read the whole thread.....
"Kinda like this - give Mickelson a set of off the rack clubs and he's still gonna shoot in the '70s. Give me a set of $3,000 custom fit clubs and I'm still gonna shoot 95-100."
Yep, that sums it up. Even most entry level factory rifles these days will outshoot the human holding it.
Everyone else has given good advice, so I will leave it at that.
Yea Rich that was one of the things I had heard about the 150s. I may expierment with a few rounds after this season.
PNG, I have a Tikka T3 Lite in .270 and it is very accurate. I don't reload but have found that mine likes Hornady Custom factory rounds. I shoot 130 gr. pointed soft points, and it groups 1" at 100 yds. from my Lead Sled.
I almost went with the 270 but I have a Rem 700 in 270 so I went with the 300. With all the reviews I read on the rifle the thing that stands out is the accuracy. Although I hadn't put too many rounds through it yet, it shoots pretty nice. Very smooth action too. Hopefully I'll be able to put a hole in something and see the results.Quote:
Originally Posted by TUCK
Tuck, any complaints with yours?
I had a Savage Model 110E in .270 that was a tack driver with just about any 140 grain factory round. I sighted it in 2" high at 100 yard, under 1" groups, and could shoot dead on out to 200 yards, which is the longest I ever shot a deer anyway.
Right now I shoot a 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser still in full military condition (I even have the bayonet), its 93 years old and still shoots one hell of a group at 100 yards even with the open sites!
I shoot Hornady Superformance 150gr GMX out of my Ruger .300 win mag. The bullet is a solid copper alloy with a polymer ballistic tip. This is by far the flattest shooting and most accurate round I have ever encountered in anything I've ever owned. I sight in with a Caldwell lead sled ratchet strapped to the bench. My 3 round groups consistently touch at 100 yards from the bench. I have a tripod on the edge of a corn field where I see deer to my left at 200 yards, to my right at 500 yards, and down the ridge in the woods at 50 yards-all at the same time. This round will deliver more than enough energy to make a clean kill on a deer at the longer ranges. The best price I found was Sportsmans Guide and I bought them when they had free shipping. I would go to a 180gr for muley's or elk.
Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: 300 Win Mag :: 300 Win Mag 150 gr GMX® Superformance®
Personally I prefer 150 gr. in my Ruger 7 Mag. From 50 yds to 300yds+, I have had NO complaints at all. I have shot high end bullets as well as your normal Remington, Winchester, etc in a vise and in hunting situations. After lots of money spent on ammo, and ALOT of deer on the ground, Remington Core-Lock 150 gr have out performed all in my opinion. Accuracy, bullet expansion, down range capability, and just plain knock down power have sold me. Although as with most high caliber guns, I have had issues with exploding bullets at close range when hitting a rib bone, but the outcome is ALWAYS a down deer immediately. 7mmMag/300 Mag, etc are great for wide open shots, but not great for shooting into semi thick to thick brush. The high velocity of the bullets will usually make nearly all bullets explode or deflect horribly when hitting a limb or something at close range no matter what brand you choose. The heavier bullets may help with this but I doubt very much, just my opinion. I know you asked about a 300 mag, my hunting buddy shoots one and he and I have had the same issues, success, and failures with my 7 mag and his 300 mag. Always remember to shoot the same bullets (brand, grain, same lot #) when hunting that you sighted your rifle in with. You probably know that, just a reminder for those who dont! Good Luck!!
No complaints at all with mine. Action is smoother than any rifle I have owned! I tried ballistic tips one season, but went back to pointed soft points. Ballistic tips grouped fine, just couldn't tell enough difference in killing performance to justify the higher price for ammo. My son has one in 7mm-08 and has had an issue with loading cartridges in the magazine even when the gun was brand new. Called Tikka after buying the rifle and having the problem and they would not send a new magazine, they wanted him to ship the entire gun back. He just lives with it, don't want to go thru the hassle of sending it back. Thought about just buying a new magazine but they cost about $80. I researched alot before buying a Tikka and couldn't find anything negative about them. Made by SAKO and imported by BERETTA. I think you will be well satisfied with it. I read an article (I think by Chuck Hawks, can't remember) that Tikka test fires all their rifles and if it doesn't group 1" or less, they shred it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleNGold