Thread: Where are pier pieces?

I apologize in advance if this is terribly redundant but I do try to search for the answer first. Do “they” know where the missing parts of the pier are and if so what do they intend to do about them where they’re rest. Did they sink in place or were they carried off? Thanks in advance also .

I was told they are still laying where they fell. Divers had been down and the sand washed out around the pilings that caused them to fall over.

I have spoken (at length) with the state engineer in charge of the project and asked that very question, plus a few others ;-)
He was very forthcoming with what is going on. He echoed our frustration, and asked for our patience as we move through this complex process.

The collapsed (5) piling sets and (6) spans are laying in a heap on the bottom in the 210 foot gap.
We don't know where the rumor started that the piling were just 'washed out' and 'laid over', but that is simply not true.
He said the pilings were battered by huge waves for an extended period, and many are broken off and none of the rubble is reusable. The most economical solution would be to recover the pieces and make another reef near the site. Probably similar to what was done with the 'octi' from the original pier.

This is all subject to getting permits (remember NOAA, the 'turtle people').
It would be MUCH more expensive to remove the rubble and place it in a landfill, or to even relocate it to deeper water. But it would also delay and make more expensive the rebuild project because ALL of the broken off pilings must be removed before new pilings can be set in their place. That is what happened in the late summer of 2008 when a number of unconsolidated pilings of the 'octi' (then under construction) were broken off by hurricanes Gustav and Ike. It delayed the 'new' pier opening an additional 10 months!
The engineering firm that contracted the original plan for the pier is working up a new plan for the rebuild. And that assessment should be complete in the next month (or so?).
I will get another status update from the state engineer in mid May.

There are also something like 18 standing pilings that were damaged (cracked). Some may be able to be repaired in place, but many will have to be pulled out and replaced. This is why we cannot access the 175 foot section still standing beyond 'the nub'. Those are part of the assessment by the engineering firm too. And all this factored together will determine the scope, cost and duration of the restoration process. Of course that will be after the bidding for the contract is concluded. Hopefully, sometime this summer...

At least +90% of the ipe floor panels were recovered after hurricane Sally, and are currently stored off site.
Since they are all numbered, that aspect of the rebuild should go faster than if they have to rebuild them.
I am confident "they" are as eager to get this rebuilt and reopened as we (fishermen) are...

Thanks for the update Pier#r that's more info than I have been able to get from anybody with the State Park System in 4 months. Just hope they come up with a better idea on building the pilings than what we had.

Thanks David for taking the time write this report. We all appreciate the attention to detail...

Thank you for getting the straight story for us, David. That gets rid of rumor and speculation. Wishing and fantasizing are fun, but that's not firm ground to stand on. Facts are better. Thanks again.

That is great information. Does anyone know why that section of the pier was most effected while the rest withstood the onslaught? And now they are using the same engineering firm to analyze and recommend solutions? They design longs spans of highway in the Keys that withstand hurricanes as strong. Outer bank piers also. Will we get this right?

Originally Posted by Royalfisher

That is great information. Does anyone know why that section of the pier was most effected while the rest withstood the onslaught? And now they are using the same engineering firm to analyze and recommend solutions? They design longs spans of highway in the Keys that withstand hurricanes as strong. Outer bank piers also. Will we get this right?

Not that I’m any smarter than anyone else, but, I was in commercial high rise construction for 45 years. It make sense to go back to the original engineers so that the “wheel” doesn’t have to be reinvented. They have a good basis and hopefully gained some info and experience from what happened during Sally.

I agree that highway designs withstand hurricanes on a regular basis, but, the cost is probably 100 times more for a bridge than a fishing pier. I’m sure the state doesn’t want to pay for a bridge for fishermen. Besides, one long stretch of bridge didn’t survive Sally, either, and, it’s still not replaced, yet.

In my mind, there ought to be something that could better protect the pilings and that might lie in the design. Such as...do round pilings hold up better that square, rectangular or, even, triangular shaped pilings. Since the triangle is the strongest geometrical shape, and might cut through waves like a boat hull, would that work better? I don’t know . Seems the waves would have to come straight on for that to work.

Anyway, my point was that it’s a good idea to use the original engineers simply because they are probably doing this redesign at a reduced rate, because of a sense of responsibility of the failure for the first pilings.

Like I said, I ain’t no smarter than no mullet.

Originally Posted by Royalfisher

That is great information. Does anyone know why that section of the pier was most effected while the rest withstood the onslaught? And now they are using the same engineering firm to analyze and recommend solutions? They design longs spans of highway in the Keys that withstand hurricanes as strong. Outer bank piers also. Will we get this right?

Someone once said that all the new ipe panels did not pop out like they were supposed to do which increased the load on the pier.

That would be a real problem if it happened. It's hard to imagine them being stuck so fast that they would not give, but that's been said.

A question for Pier#'r.

Was that section of the pier in place when Gustav and Ike damaged the Octi? If so, my most likely scenario would be that there were small cracks in a few of the lost piles for a long time and the re-bar had rusted in a few spots. I've worked in and with demolition for over thirty years and I have seen that kind of problem. I know re-bar technology has changed from the older buildings we usually demolish and I would bet that the re-bar in the pier is well coated with epoxy, but saltwater can make short work of re-bar once it gets to it. Once one or two piles were compromised the nearby ones are under much greater load.

But we will never know for certain.

Yes, I discussed at length with the state engineer, the 'option/reasoning' for round piling, longer piling, etc.
And the short answers are it would take longer, cost more and change the permitting process.

A damage pattern such as this is not unprecedented at all in the region. Who here remembers 'the metal walkway cage' to reach the end of the Okaloosa Island Pier in the 1980s and 90s?
And the damage pattern to Navarre Pier from Hurricane Opal in the mid 90s? Look familiar?

Bottom line is the long term battering from huge waves during hurricane Sally simply overwhelmed the design and we had a collapse of 5 piling sets. The divers found no obvious evidence of a strike or anything like that. Though it still can't be totally ruled out unless there was some sort of investigation once the pieces were recovered.
Would there be evidence of structural 'compromise' from previous storms? Who knows.

What matters most is they are committed to getting this repaired and reopened as soon as possible!

BTW, he was part of the original design team, in fact many of the features we currently enjoy are because of his forethought.
The original pier (built in the late 1960s) was 'state of the art' for its time. But the deck was only 18 feet above Mean Sea Level (MSL). And it was constructed of solid concrete rebar reinforced slabs that fit over the spans. They found major hurricane waves (20 feet or higher) would beat on them from underneath and cracked the concrete.
In the design phase for the current pier (in the mid 2000s) some wanted the deck to be 25 feet above MSL (like the Florida Panhandle piers). But the thought was that would affect and reduce the 'connection' fishermen would feel with the water and what is in it. So the current height of 20 foot above MSL was deemed as a compromise to reduce damage from storm waves as was the 'blow out' panel design. The idea is to relief some of the upward damaging thrust of water on the south side of the bents as a huge wave top washes into it.