I'm Probably Hooked, But Have New Questions!

First, I want to thank those of you who provided quality advice before my surf fishing "expedition" this past week in GS. I mostly caught "trash fish", but I had a blast doing it. I got to mark several species off of my list. I caught blues, whiting, flounder, rays, catfish, pompano, sucker fish, ladyfish, and a couple of things that I still haven't identified.

Now that I have made a "discovery" run, I am ready to tune my gear in a bit better.

I found that my 15ft. surf rod was more trouble than it was worth. I think that most of you would have told me that in the beginning, if you weren't so damn nice. I had the feeling that I would find this to be the case, but I was using it as an extreme, to find my happy place between 15ft. and my 7.5 ft. catfish rod. My takeaway from this is that I think that the happy place is around 10 - 11ft. The big rod had an Okuma 90 series baitfeeder on it. I thought it performed fairly well, but I think I could step down to a 50 or 65. If I came up on the pier with 10 - 11ft. surf rods with 65 series reels, how bad would you guys laugh at me? That's part of the reason I stayed on the beach on this trip. It's bad, but I know how I can look at new freshwater fishermen in my part of the world.

Down on the beach Wednesday morning, I had tourists taking photos and videos of me de-barbing a ray. I loved the look on their faces when I told them that it was my first time to ever do it. Maybe I am youtube famous now.

A big problem that I had was dragging my gear out onto the beach. I was toting too much tackle, given that I didn't know exactly what I was doing, but even after I "slim down", it's still a bitch without a cart. I have to have something that folds down to fit in a small SUV. Has anybody tried this one: Amazon.com : Genji Sports Wheeleez Fishing Cart/Beach Cart : Fishing Equipment : Sports & Outdoors ? It looks like a nice compromise for surf and pier duty.

Between two surf reels, I found that I had a much better experience with my catfish rig that was already spooled with braid. It seems like most on this forum prefer mono. Is there any reason why I should avoid using braid with a floro leader? It worked pretty well for me, but I was also catching a lot of junk like bluefish and rays.

I noticed that there weren't any sandfleas to be found in my area. Are they seasonal, or is the area around Sea N Suds just not conducive to holding them? I assume that the lack of fleas is also connected with the lack of keeper size pompano where I was at. I did catch dozens of babies with a crappie jig on my ultralight.

Another odd thing that I saw is that the fish pretty much just "cut off" on the beach on Friday. I know that this is typical in fishing, but I don't really know the driving factors in salt water. On Wednesday and Thursday, I could only get two rods in spikes because I constantly had a fish on. On Friday, I managed to spike three and do a lot of waiting.

Speaking of spikes, I was using some that I made from 2" PVC. While they were nice when they were in the sand, carrying them and setting them is a major pain. Would it be better to buy the cheapo premade rod spikes, or cut my PVC down and add aluminum angle as the actual spike? The upside to the full PVC is that it made for good rod protection in the floor of my SUV. I think I might make a rod tube for the roof, so hopefully that advantage will be a non-issue.

Finally, I didn't really expect to catch any flounder in the surf. To my surprise, I threw a small Mirrolure on my ultralight and must have hit the flounder right in the nose. We were "off to the races" as soon as the lure hit the water. I thought that flounder were typically caught on jigs. Was my catch a fluke, or is a mirrolure something that would typically be used for flounder?

Great job catching for your first time getting salty in the surf.

Since I only use 5' to 7' rods in the surf, I may not be the best advisor on 10 foot Eiffel Towers. Even though saltwater has larger fish in general, you can treat it like freshwater when it comes to rod n reel selection in the surf. Think bass gear.

I've never found joy in those super long rods. Nothing but trouble. If you bring it to the pier, it's not laughter you'll have to worry about so much as the trouble it will cause you when fighting your fish at the rail. When the tip breaks off because the rod was too long at the rail, and the 10' rod is shortened to 7', THEN laughter shall ensue.

As for reels, go check out a Shimano Saros or Sahara 4000. I don't use anything larger unless on a boat. If you use anything larger than that in the surf (except shark fishing), you'll just exhaust yourself.

As for taking your gear out on the beach, it is just not worth it. If you must endure the struggle, get a cart with very wide wheels that can glide through sand. Otherwise, travel light. I suggest a backpack--some even have straps that hold your rods. Catching and keeping fish? Get a big garbage bag and a couple of coke bottles filled with water and frozen. That will keep your fish chilled enough in the bag until you take your catch back to the cooler in your vehicle.

Think light travel. No more rods than you have spikes because you don't want any of your gear laying in the sand either.

As for line, I don't use anything over 10# for my main line. I keep it around 4# - 8# range myself, and use a 16# mono for topshot/leader. If there are toothies out, I'll use 27 wire leader off the end of the mono top shot.

10# braid is more strength than you'll need and you can get much more line on a lighter reel using that size or less. People don't like braid at the pier simply because it cuts the lines of other people using mono when fishes run and lines cross over. You won't have that problem in the surf, so the use of braid is fine there and will cast further.

I would suggest adding the metal angle to your spikes. Gives you the much needed height bonus so your line doesn't dangle in the waves close up.

The fish cut off because of the transitions of neap tide most likely. In saltwater, it's more about timing the tides with the sun/moon and depending on what species, to increase your odds. Even then, after all your preparation on timing, weather can greatly change things, and sometimes fish just do their own thing no matter the right or wrong conditions.

As for the mirrolure, I've caught everything you can imagine on that. It resembles small baitfish, so flounder will definitely go after it. Most of the flounder I caught in little lagoon were on a mirrodine mirrolure. You just won't catch them as reliably as the other baits--especially when competitor species are around.

Don't be afraid to ask questions, and if you come to the pier and get picked on for your gear, just let some of us know. There are a few people we'd love to throw over the rail.

We also have a small suv for travel to the gulf and I had a receiver hitch mounted and got one of those luggage racks that connects to the reciever. Bolt two pieces of 2x8 wood on it for the tires to sit on. You now have room for the larger carts they sell at j&m.

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Originally Posted by Viking Guy

Great job catching for your first time getting salty in the surf.

Since I only use 5' to 7' rods in the surf, I may not be the best advisor on 10 foot Eiffel Towers. Even though saltwater has larger fish in general, you can treat it like freshwater when it comes to rod n reel selection in the surf. Think bass gear.

I've never found joy in those super long rods. Nothing but trouble. If you bring it to the pier, it's not laughter you'll have to worry about so much as the trouble it will cause you when fighting your fish at the rail. When the tip breaks off because the rod was too long at the rail, and the 10' rod is shortened to 7', THEN laughter shall ensue.

As for reels, go check out a Shimano Saros or Sahara 4000. I don't use anything larger unless on a boat. If you use anything larger than that in the surf (except shark fishing), you'll just exhaust yourself.

As for taking your gear out on the beach, it is just not worth it. If you must endure the struggle, get a cart with very wide wheels that can glide through sand. Otherwise, travel light. I suggest a backpack--some even have straps that hold your rods. Catching and keeping fish? Get a big garbage bag and a couple of coke bottles filled with water and frozen. That will keep your fish chilled enough in the bag until you take your catch back to the cooler in your vehicle.

Think light travel. No more rods than you have spikes because you don't want any of your gear laying in the sand either.

As for line, I don't use anything over 10# for my main line. I keep it around 4# - 8# range myself, and use a 16# mono for topshot/leader. If there are toothies out, I'll use 27 wire leader off the end of the mono top shot.

10# braid is more strength than you'll need and you can get much more line on a lighter reel using that size or less. People don't like braid at the pier simply because it cuts the lines of other people using mono when fishes run and lines cross over. You won't have that problem in the surf, so the use of braid is fine there and will cast further.

I would suggest adding the metal angle to your spikes. Gives you the much needed height bonus so your line doesn't dangle in the waves close up.

The fish cut off because of the transitions of neap tide most likely. In saltwater, it's more about timing the tides with the sun/moon and depending on what species, to increase your odds. Even then, after all your preparation on timing, weather can greatly change things, and sometimes fish just do their own thing no matter the right or wrong conditions.

As for the mirrolure, I've caught everything you can imagine on that. It resembles small baitfish, so flounder will definitely go after it. Most of the flounder I caught in little lagoon were on a mirrodine mirrolure. You just won't catch them as reliably as the other baits--especially when competitor species are around.

Don't be afraid to ask questions, and if you come to the pier and get picked on for your gear, just let some of us know. There are a few people we'd love to throw over the rail.

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So it sounds like I should just bring a couple of my baitcasters if I go to the pier. They are more or less ready to go as is. I didn't want to take any of my nicer baitcasters in the surf. It turns out that it was for good reason. I had a spike lay over as I was removing 3 cats from a pompano rig. The reel got a good dunk. I just spent the last hour rebuilding it. When I realized that it was hosed, I threw up a $25 wally world spinning outfit in it's place. I definitely had fun fighting blues on that piece of crap. I think it probably had 10# mono on it.

I would think some of my heavier baitcasters would be the ticket based on your advice. Would a Falcon or Berkley Bionix crankbait rod (medium heavy) fit the scenario? I think they are around 7 ft.

I do intend to retain at least one heavy/long surf rod, just something a bit easier to manage. I had fun sitting out on the beach at night after dinner, drinking beer and pulling in whatever was biting. It was good for the soul.

By the way, I am considering coming back in October, when better fish will be biting. We realized that our toddler doesn't care much for swimming on the beach, so much as swimming in the pool. I was considering reserving a place at the Royal Palms, as it's closest to the pier. Does anyone know of a nice place on the lagoon or elsewhere that might provide some convenient dock fishing? A heated pool would be a must for the wife and child. I can drive to the pier, no biggie.

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Originally Posted by DUCK

We also have a small suv for travel to the gulf and I had a receiver hitch mounted and got one of those luggage racks that connects to the reciever. Bolt two pieces of 2x8 wood on it for the tires to sit on. You now have room for the larger carts they sell at j&m.

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I have a Honda CRV that I installed a receiver hitch on and also use a cargo carrier as Duck suggested. Modify it to hold your cart and you can free up space inside the SUV by transporting coolers, tackle boxes, net, bait buckets, etc. in the cart. I still load rods inside the vehicle by laying them between the seats. Once I get there I leave rods in the rod holders on the cart for short trips, just use bungee cords to keep them from bouncing out. I also agree that unless you are shark fishing, the 15 foot rod is too much. From the beach, I have caught way more fish between the sand bars than I have beyond the 2nd sand bar, so I would recommend rods no longer than 8'. You can also use them on the pier without wearing yourself out. Most of my rods are 7' and reels are 4000 series. I only use bigger setups for kings. Whether you buy a cart or make your own, be sure to buy the wide sand tires if you plan on using it for surf fishing, they will also be ok for the pier. I built my own cart out of pvc and bought the regular tires that come standard on store bought carts, they DO NOT work well in the sand! Good luck!

Here's my flounder, assuming that I know how to post pics here:
http://i.imgur.com/with0KY.jpg

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Originally Posted by TUCK

I have a Honda CRV that I installed a receiver hitch on and also use a cargo carrier as Duck suggested. Modify it to hold your cart and you can free up space inside the SUV by transporting coolers, tackle boxes, net, bait buckets, etc. in the cart. I still load rods inside the vehicle by laying them between the seats. Once I get there I leave rods in the rod holders on the cart for short trips, just use bungee cords to keep them from bouncing out. I also agree that unless you are shark fishing, the 15 foot rod is too much. From the beach, I have caught way more fish between the sand bars than I have beyond the 2nd sand bar, so I would recommend rods no longer than 8'. You can also use them on the pier without wearing yourself out. Most of my rods are 7' and reels are 4000 series. I only use bigger setups for kings. Whether you buy a cart or make your own, be sure to buy the wide sand tires if you plan on using it for surf fishing, they will also be ok for the pier. I built my own cart out of pvc and bought the regular tires that come standard on store bought carts, they DO NOT work well in the sand! Good luck!

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After meditating on this idea for a bit, I just remembered that I have a pressure washer chassis sitting around doing nothing. I bet that it will make a nice cart.

Sounds like you're getting some good advice. My 2cents worth is that I like 9' rods to keep my line out of the surf action and so that the beach strollers can walk under the line---I hate to have the bikinis detour around behind me so that I get a sore neck from twisting around. I like 8# to 12# mono for the surf---there are no stumps, so you can let 'em run, also not as much drag in the water, thus less weight needed and more fun fighting the smaller fish.

On the pier, rods more than 8' tend to get unwieldy and it's difficult to do the dance when a few people get hooked up at once.

Tight lines.

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Originally Posted by backwoods

So it sounds like I should just bring a couple of my baitcasters if I go to the pier. They are more or less ready to go as is. I didn't want to take any of my nicer baitcasters in the surf. It turns out that it was for good reason. I had a spike lay over as I was removing 3 cats from a pompano rig. The reel got a good dunk. I just spent the last hour rebuilding it. When I realized that it was hosed, I threw up a $25 wally world spinning outfit in it's place. I definitely had fun fighting blues on that piece of crap. I think it probably had 10# mono on it.

I would think some of my heavier baitcasters would be the ticket based on your advice. Would a Falcon or Berkley Bionix crankbait rod (medium heavy) fit the scenario? I think they are around 7 ft.

I do intend to retain at least one heavy/long surf rod, just something a bit easier to manage. I had fun sitting out on the beach at night after dinner, drinking beer and pulling in whatever was biting. It was good for the soul.

By the way, I am considering coming back in October, when better fish will be biting. We realized that our toddler doesn't care much for swimming on the beach, so much as swimming in the pool. I was considering reserving a place at the Royal Palms, as it's closest to the pier. Does anyone know of a nice place on the lagoon or elsewhere that might provide some convenient dock fishing? A heated pool would be a must for the wife and child. I can drive to the pier, no biggie.

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I'd seriously consider getting one decent spinner setup, but baitcasters can work just as well provided you can put a good capacity on one. I'm not very fond of the BB crankbait rods, but Falcons are decent--especially the LowRiders. However, a rod doesn't make or break your fishing provided it can handle the casting--so use what feels most comfortable on your hand to reduce fatigue. Fishing well comes with practicing what we call "finger drag system"--learning to play a fish with utilizing your reel, drag and line correctly, and properly angling the rod to minimize stress on it. Many anglers put too much emphasis on the rod, and cost themselves a lot of fish doing so through charismatic "horsing" techniques and rod pumping, rather than finessing. Either style can work, but I personally prefer the finesse fishing, because it will always reign most effective and fun. Also, jerking a fish around with the rod can put added stress on your guides, reel roller, line and even pull the hook by tearing the fish's mouth tissue. In some cases with certain species, it may even increase the odds of attracting the attention of a shark from the vibrations.

Most of this you probably already knew, but figured I'd share it anyhow just in case. As for your spike falling over, that is precisely why I added a metal angle to mine. Serves two purposes--digs deep into the sand for a secure set with little effort (preventing tipping), and increases the height of your spike so you can enjoy shorter rods being placed in the spike. Also, the best advice I can provide when using spikes is to utilize circle hooks. Then, you can lower your drag on the reel so the fish can eat and run on light drag, and then there is no stress on the sand spike. Instead, you walk over casually, lift it out, tighten drag a little bit to pull the circle hook into the corner of the mouth (finger the spool for a brief 1 second to give a hook set then let go instantly), and let the fish run until it stops. Add a little more drag and proceed to reel in. If fish runs again, let it, and reel in again when it stops. Once fish is in, it can be safely released because a circle hook will never stick in its gut or gills, and you'll get and keep many more hook sets with a circle hook. I've even started using circle hooks on kings (primarily because there were many undersized this year), and its a night and day difference.

Lastly, if you do decide to grab a spinner setup, I will recommend Shimano as a great starting point. Grab a 6' 6" Med/Heavy Shimano Rod in the $50-$75 price range, and put a Shimano Sahara 4000 on it. Add some 10# Power Pro, or Berkley Nanofil on there and have a blast! There are tons of gear out there, but this set up will run around $150 plus the line, and is a solid medium grade combo. You can catch just about anything large or small on this arrangement. Sensitive enough for Spotted Seatrout, and tough enough for a Crevalle Jack.

Best of luck!

Viking Guy is giving you some excellent advice. I too would suggest a spinning combo. You re going to work yourself to death with a baitcaster on the pier and it s going to be difficult to work some of the artificials you ll need to use with them I know I ve tried due to my freshwater bassing days You seem like a pretty no nonsense guy when it comes to your fishing AS such get yourself the spinning combo I think you ll enjoy the fishing a lot more with it